Curse

Wenspire · Mar 14, 2011, 10:02 PM // 22:02

IMO, PI takes much more skill to effectively use than FD or Panic (those play more like a Necro hex spammer) due to the timing needed. Landing PI, you are also pretty much guaranteed a successful WW and/or WD trigger along with a WasteNot. EN should never be an issue when running PI unless you are just spamming skills like WW/WD on recharge.

Outerworld · Mar 14, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

IMO, PI takes much more skill to effectively use than FD or Panic (those play more like a Necro hex spammer) due to the timing needed. Landing PI, you are also pretty much guaranteed a successful WW and/or WD trigger along with a WasteNot. EN should never be an issue when running PI unless you are just spamming skills like WW/WD on recharge.

Whether PI takes more skill to play or not, the results are inferior to that of FD as far as shutdown goes.

Wenspire · Mar 14, 2011, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I disagree and I have played both builds for extended periods of time. FD has it's uses as a support/utility role which does require support skills to realize. PI and Panic plays support as a standalone skill allowing 7 other skills to do damage, more support, etc.

As I had said before, I like FD and do see the usefulness of Panic (even though I may dislike the skill). However, PI has been 90% of the time my skill of choice after the big Mesmer update. However, if I had to choose between FD or Panic I would go with FD (depending of course on area, enemies and party setup).

Outerworld · Mar 14, 2011, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Each to their own then I guess.

HigherMinion · Mar 14, 2011, 11:57 PM // 23:57

If Frustration was an AoE hex, I would favour Panic due to instant party shutdown+self-nuke. Sadly not the case, so Panic loses.

Although... Fragility was made AoE, why can't Frust?

Outerworld · Mar 14, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

If Frustration was an AoE hex, I would favour Panic due to instant party shutdown+self-nuke. Sadly not the case, so Panic loses.

Although... Fragility was made AoE, why can't Frust?

Because that would be fairly broken?

Xenomortis · Mar 14, 2011, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I would favour FD much more over Panic if Frustration was AoE.
FD and Frustration are in the same line; Panic is in Domination.

Cuilan · Mar 15, 2011, 02:12 AM // 02:12

Would be nice if people would show builds to compare what they ran for FD, PI, and Panic instead of everyone saying what their favorite is.

Wenspire · Mar 15, 2011, 02:31 AM // 02:31

I ran this for FD (this was before Mes update):

OQREAckTeDlTZTeDYAyCoLWLWHA

I run this PI build most of the time now:

OQBDAswzMmONwy3FkDChTPZA

HigherMinion · Mar 15, 2011, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

I ran this for FD (this was before Mes update):

OQREAckTeDlTZTeDYAyCoLWLWHA

No Fragility?
14 Illusion, 10 inspiration, 6 Earth, Fastcast 9.
FD bar I run:
1.Fevered Dreams
2.Fraglity
3."You Move Like a Dwarf!"
4.Ash Blast
5."Finish Him!"
6.Cry of Pain
7.Arcane Conundrum
8.Drain Delusions

AndrewSX · Mar 15, 2011, 08:51 AM // 08:51

FD base bar (afaik) is:

1.Fevered Dreams
2.Fraglity
3."You Move Like a Dwarf!"
4."Finish Him!"
5.Optional
6.Optional
7.Arcane Conundrum
8.Drain Delusions

Optionals could be: Ash Blast, You're all weaklings, Cry of pain,....

Currently i'm messing around to secondary Necro, usign Barbed Sig+Enfeeble(7 Blood and 5 Curse if i remember) to apply Weakness+Bleeding.
Necro prof gives also the kurz skill Sig of corruption:
"Signet. Deals 20...28...30 damage to target and nearby foes. You gain 2 Energy (maximum 12...18...20) for each of these foes with a condition or hex. "
Seems good replacement for last 2 mes skill for manage energy, cause almost every foe in the area should be affected by a condition(thanks to FD) or hex(most likely Frag). Haven't tested it tough.

Also:

Quote:

Interrupts and skill failure have separate wiki pages.

Interrupts, Knocklocking, failures....just different name/way to have the same result. That an enemy doesn't cast.

Outerworld · Mar 15, 2011, 10:21 AM // 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

I ran this for FD (this was before Mes update):

OQREAckTeDlTZTeDYAyCoLWLWHA

I would favour accumulated pain over phantom pain tbh since its more on demand and as minion said no frag makes little sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

14 Illusion, 10 inspiration, 6 Earth, Fastcast 9.
FD bar I run:
1.Fevered Dreams
2.Fraglity
3."You Move Like a Dwarf!"
4.Ash Blast
5."Finish Him!"
6.Cry of Pain
7.Arcane Conundrum
8.Drain Delusions

You could drop a point in FC and raise earth for a bit more blind if you wished.

maxxfury · Mar 15, 2011, 04:14 PM // 16:14

12 Illusion is the 3 second breakpoint for daze from Fevered Dreams. 14 ill only neds you a 2 sec duration boost and a little frag damage, and 8/9 earth gives you maintainable blinds ..

Personally i take: 12illu/10fc/10insp/8earth (ish~)
FD
Frag
YMLAD!
Ashblast / enfeeble (/e or /n as desired)
FH!
Cry of pain / fire djinn (cos thats fun mainly :P)
Arcane conundrum
Drain delusions

covered everything i think ill ever need... caster hate, melee weakening and blocking, snaring, armour defbuff and some of my own damage thrown in too.. Its a little less effective than a panic bar vs larger mobs of primarily casters, but when you throw in melee it steps all over it imo..especially with the blinds..
I know Xeno prefers weakness over blind due to aegis chains, curse based physical hate, ect, and indeed when your team is energised that way..*nods, fair enough :P* if you trust the team to do as told :P

Tbh im not suprised some call FD out as been substantially worse than panic bars, when they run guff with bleed and poison and not a good version with the proper conditions and skills :/

Wenspire · Mar 15, 2011, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

I would favour accumulated pain over phantom pain tbh since its more on demand and as minion said no frag makes little sense.

You could drop a point in FC and raise earth for a bit more blind if you wished.

Although accumulated pain is a usable skill, I do not really like the 2 hex requiremet. The faster recharge is not actually much more so after factoring in fast cast.

Fragility does a small amount of damage since most of the conditions are not short duration; you would mostly benefit from the initial packet. Besides, you really don't want your target to die so fast in the same way you wouldn't want a mark of pain target to.

For me, FD is a support skill used to make things easier to kill for the damage dealers and help mitigate damage taken at the same time. I want to apply my hex and conditions as fast as possible.

Xenomortis · Mar 15, 2011, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Although accumulated pain is a usable skill, I do not really like the 2 hex requiremet. The faster recharge is not actually much more so after factoring in fast cast.

Fragility does a small amount of damage since most of the conditions are not short duration; you would mostly benefit from the initial packet. Besides, you really don't want your target to die so fast in the same way you wouldn't want a mark of pain target to.

You're looking at;
Cripple, Weakness/Blind, Dazed, Deep Wound, Cracked Armour and the possibility of Poison and maybe even Bleeding.
Dazed is likely to trigger Fragility twice, if not more. Blind can also trigger it twice.
So you're looking at 5 to 8 triggers on Fragility, which at 12 Illusion, is 85 to 136 damage (95 to 152 at 14).

I don't care how fast my target dies, so long as I can apply my condition stack.

Fragility also serves as a valuable cover/fish hex and can easily be pulled for energy with Drain Delusions.

Wenspire · Mar 15, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You're looking at;
Cripple, Weakness/Blind, Dazed, Deep Wound, Cracked Armour and the possibility of Poison and maybe even Bleeding.
Dazed is likely to trigger Fragility twice, if not more. Blind can also trigger it twice.
So you're looking at 5 to 8 triggers on Fragility, which at 12 Illusion, is 85 to 136 damage (95 to 152 at 14).

I don't care how fast my target dies, so long as I can apply my condition stack.

Fragility also serves as a valuable cover/fish hex and can easily be pulled for energy with Drain Delusions.

Which still equates to less than one trigger of mistrust or maybe even ineptitude. There is no lack of cover hexes for fd so that really isn't an issue.

I did play with using fragility with FD back then. I just found that it wasn't as useful for me and what I was trying to achieve with the build. If it works for you that's great.

Outerworld · Mar 15, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Although accumulated pain is a usable skill, I do not really like the 2 hex requiremet. The faster recharge is not actually much more so after factoring in fast cast.

Fragility does a small amount of damage since most of the conditions are not short duration; you would mostly benefit from the initial packet. Besides, you really don't want your target to die so fast in the same way you wouldn't want a mark of pain target to.

For me, FD is a support skill used to make things easier to kill for the damage dealers and help mitigate damage taken at the same time. I want to apply my hex and conditions as fast as possible.

1)Accumulated is on demand DW as opposed to phantoms 10 seconds.
2)Frag on a single trigger does little damage, but with all the conditions being thrown around it isn't actually that bad.
3)Why would you not want your target to die fast? As long as you get as you get the conditions onto the FD target quickly (which with the norn shouts can be very quick) its fine for it to die shortly after.

The Josip · May 07, 2011, 11:20 PM // 23:20

(Minor thread resurrection, temp return from MiA)

Negative comments in the thread regarding PI are misplaced. PI is not good in areas where you cannot effectively interrupt in HM, as human. You simply don't take PI to these areas. PI is the most difficult of the three simply because you not only have to interrupt, but you have to be a real old school mesmer - you need to know thy enemy. You also need to be ahead of your team. If you're back and your teammates aggro, enemy can fire away initial salvo and spread out before you interrupt first spell. That's bad. What I do is charge first (whenever possible), TAB to monster type I know will cast the longest spell (say, ele or necro). If I play with Wisdom I cast it. Then, as AI is predictable, when I come in range, he starts casting. I interrupt. That's it. With Wisdom (plus other HSR, if any) thee's a good chance PI will recharge in 4 seconds. Which means permanent knockdown. As a matter of fact, these days I mostly PuG with a pet, EBSoWisdom + HSR, and a selection of random skills I feel like having purely for fun, such as Naga summon (which doesn't interfere with my PIing once I engage in combat).

Most importantly, PI (especially with EBSoW and HSR equipment) is fun. FD, for me, is tedious - the constant struggle with energy and sequence-casting.

LexTalionis · May 08, 2011, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

(Minor thread resurrection, temp return from MiA)

Negative comments in the thread regarding PI are misplaced. PI is not good in areas where you cannot effectively interrupt in HM, as human. You simply don't take PI to these areas. PI is the most difficult of the three simply because you not only have to interrupt, but you have to be a real old school mesmer - you need to know thy enemy. You also need to be ahead of your team. If you're back and your teammates aggro, enemy can fire away initial salvo and spread out before you interrupt first spell. That's bad. What I do is charge first (whenever possible), TAB to monster type I know will cast the longest spell (say, ele or necro). If I play with Wisdom I cast it. Then, as AI is predictable, when I come in range, he starts casting. I interrupt. That's it. With Wisdom (plus other HSR, if any) thee's a good chance PI will recharge in 4 seconds. Which means permanent knockdown. As a matter of fact, these days I mostly PuG with a pet, EBSoWisdom + HSR, and a selection of random skills I feel like having purely for fun, such as Naga summon (which doesn't interfere with my PIing once I engage in combat).

Most importantly, PI (especially with EBSoW and HSR equipment) is fun. FD, for me, is tedious - the constant struggle with energy and sequence-casting.

Just a minor note: Recharge bonuses from multiple sources only stack to 50%, so the only time you'll get Psychic Instability to have less than a 6 second recharge is if HSR procs off your weapon/offhand. Otherwise, carry on.

The Josip · May 08, 2011, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexTalionis

Just a minor note: Recharge bonuses from multiple sources only stack to 50%, so the only time you'll get Psychic Instability to have less than a 6 second recharge is if HSR procs off your weapon/offhand. Otherwise, carry on.

Spell recharge can only be halved. But the chance of that can be increased with both Wisdom and equipment (stacking). You can correct me if I'm wrong but that's what my tests show.

Fast Casting does not count. Halved PI will be 4 seconds, not 6. Knockdown lock.